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    Track S15


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    #81 Dalspec

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    Posted 16 July 2016 - 09:03 PM

    On a set of 17x9,5 Enkeis I battled to clear a setup with 332mm rotors.  The brake set profile card shows the closeness to the mentioned step in the wheel.

     

    Stoptech%20on%20Enkei_zpskwbjvirz.jpg

     

    Advan RGs in contrast had a tiny step and a mile of clearance

     

    Stoptech%20on%20Advan%201_zpsswfakvb5.jp

     

    On another car there was no way in hell I was going to fit 17s over some 355mm brakes.  Moved to 18"  TE37C and could have gone bigger brakes.

    That said super-taxis ran 350ish rotors in 17s for years.

     



    Apparently the rpf01s are not great for brake clearance. Ive got a set of 17x9 +22 all round on my car so we can trial fit one over your brake setup. Might need to try a different wheel design if it wont fit.


    Name: Greg Location: Perth Car: S14

    #82 Dalspec

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    Posted 16 July 2016 - 09:15 PM

    Probably this one:

    http://www.nissanroa...read.php?t=1652

     

    Nismo were all over it years ago when they sold traction arms 5mm longer than stock.  The ideal length in the thread from memory was about 6mm longer (setup dependent).

     

    If you're chasing offset bushes Whiteline/Red Ranger does them all.  I've just listed some of their rear camber correction bushes for sale.

     

     

     

    I haven't even started looking at the rear end geometry yet, but I have heard it is a bit of a challenge. We have to run the standard arms & rods etc, no adjustable aftermarket ones allowed in our class. The bushes etc can be changed however, so one of the things I will look at is having some offset bushes made to gain some adjustability if we can.

     

    A link to the thread you mentioned would be great. Very interested in having a read.


    Edited by Dalspec, 16 July 2016 - 09:18 PM.

    Name: Greg Location: Perth Car: S14

    #83 Dalspec

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    Posted 16 July 2016 - 09:36 PM

    This is typical of 330ish vs 350ish

    https://www.zeckhaus...cPath=6446_6565

     

    Test fitting completed..... 350mm rotor with evo 9 caliper does NOT fit Enkei rpf1 rims. There is a step in the rim shape that narrows the internal diameter near to spokes, and that fouls on the calliper.

     

    Options are....

     

    1. Find a rim that will fit

    2. Reduce rotor size to fit the Enkei's

     

    Considerations .......

     

    Weight - Enkei rims are 7.2kg's - which is very light. By going to a different rim, how much extra unsprung weight will I need to carry? Most options seem to weigh at least 0.5kg more.

    Weight - Rotors - a 320mm two piece Evo 9 rotor from Giro disc weighs approx 8.2kg's while the 350mm weighs around 8.8kg.

    If I go the smaller rotor and and stay with Enkei's, I can save at least 1kg of unsprung weight (dependant upon wheels - maybe more), Question is, will there be any benefit running the 350mm rotor?

     

    More research to do!


    Name: Greg Location: Perth Car: S14

    #84 datman55

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    Posted 17 July 2016 - 08:28 AM

     

    On a set of 17x9,5 Enkeis I battled to clear a setup with 332mm rotors.  The brake set profile card shows the closeness to the mentioned step in the wheel.

     

    Stoptech%20on%20Enkei_zpskwbjvirz.jpg

     

    Advan RGs in contrast had a tiny step and a mile of clearance

     

    Stoptech%20on%20Advan%201_zpsswfakvb5.jp

     

    On another car there was no way in hell I was going to fit 17s over some 355mm brakes.  Moved to 18"  TE37C and could have gone bigger brakes.

    That said super-taxis ran 350ish rotors in 17s for years.

     



    Apparently the rpf01s are not great for brake clearance. Ive got a set of 17x9 +22 all round on my car so we can trial fit one over your brake setup. Might need to try a different wheel design if it wont fit.

     

     

    I have pretty much given up on running the 350mm rotors. Instead I am going to run the 320mm EVO 9 rotor. This should be plenty big enough for what I'll be doing, is significantly lighter then the 350mm rotor, has easy to source two piece options and opens up my options for wheels.



    #85 datman55

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    Posted 17 July 2016 - 08:35 AM

     

    Probably this one:

    http://www.nissanroa...read.php?t=1652

     

    Nismo were all over it years ago when they sold traction arms 5mm longer than stock.  The ideal length in the thread from memory was about 6mm longer (setup dependent).

     

    If you're chasing offset bushes Whiteline/Red Ranger does them all.  I've just listed some of their rear camber correction bushes for sale.

     

     

     

    I haven't even started looking at the rear end geometry yet, but I have heard it is a bit of a challenge. We have to run the standard arms & rods etc, no adjustable aftermarket ones allowed in our class. The bushes etc can be changed however, so one of the things I will look at is having some offset bushes made to gain some adjustability if we can.

     

    A link to the thread you mentioned would be great. Very interested in having a read.

     

     

    Thanks for the link. The NISMO rear end gear looks interesting, but I don't think I am allowed to use it. If 6mm extra length is the ideal, we might be able to get that with the bushes.



    #86 VFR15

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    Posted 17 July 2016 - 05:13 PM

    I thought this was being built for street cars, or is it back to IPRA ?



    #87 datman55

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    Posted 17 July 2016 - 08:20 PM

    IPRA, not enough people running street cars to make it interesting.



    #88 datman55

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    Posted 21 July 2016 - 05:23 PM

    We have achieved a little bit of progress this week with the brakes. I got hold of an EVO 8 Front rotor and also a Subaru STI front rotor to test fit with some wheels. It turns out the Brembo callipers on the EVO's are the same as those on the STI Subaru's. The rotor's however are slightly different.
     
    First the results for the EVO rotor. 320mm rotor with a thickness of 32mm. The "hat height" (or offset) of the rotor is 43.5mm (Standard S15 is 54mm) This means the rotor and therefore the calliper is around 10mm closer to the wheel spokes than stock. This was not a problem with the 17x9 stock R33 GTR wheels (offset +30), there was heaps of clearance, however, they still fouled on the Enkei RPf1's (offset +22). I guess it's true, the Enkei RPF1 is just not "Big Brake" friendly. The problem is the Enkei wheel is very cost effective and very light for it's size (around 7.2kg's for 17x9)
     
    Next we tried the STI rotor. This is a 326mm rotor with a thickness of 30mm. To cater for the difference in rotor thickness, when you order STI Brembo pads, they are 1mm thicker than EVO ones. The "hat Height" or offset of these rotors is closer to the stock S15 rotor at 53mm. Obviously, they fitted the GTR wheels with no issue, the good news is, they also fit the Enkei RPF1! At Last, a combo that will fit!
     
    So what does this all mean.........
     
    On the down side, the thinner rotor means it wont deal with the heat quite as well as the EVO rotor, but should still do the job. The centre hole of the rotor is only 58mm, so it wont fit the S15 without machining the centre hole out to 68mm. There are not any "off the shelf" calliper adaptors in the market (that I know of) to bolt this set-up together, so I will need to get some made (if it's even possible).
     
    On the up side, there are off the shelf 2 piece floating rotors available at very reasonable costs, the rotor is a slightly larger diameter (6mm) and the is also lighter than the EVO 2 piece rotors by nearly 1kg, in fact the STI rotor is only 300g heavier than the stock rotor. Which means, the combined weight of the rotor & calliper is actually 200g lighter than the stock combo while being 46mm bigger in diameter!
     
    So the next step is to get the STI rotors centre hole machined to 68mm to fit the S15 hubs. Once that's done, we can start on designing the calliper adaptors to bolt the whole lot together!

    Edited by datman55, 23 July 2016 - 08:26 AM.


    #89 Dalspec

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    Posted 21 July 2016 - 07:07 PM

    What brand/cost are the rotors/hats?


    Name: Greg Location: Perth Car: S14

    #90 datman55

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    Posted 21 July 2016 - 08:38 PM

    GiroDisc $700 USD.... http://www.girodisc....STi_p_5514.html

     

    There are some guys selling them in Aus too, but I have not nailed down who or how much. (Sub $1,000 for the pair though)



    #91 datman55

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    Posted 24 July 2016 - 07:16 AM

    Mini Update......

     

    Yesterday I removed a fair portion of the braking system. ABS Unit is out, master cylinder is out and the brake booster is out (what a bastard that was). I have also removed the Cusco breather can, as we have to run a much larger one to go racing, from memory it needs to be 1 litre capacity, but I need to check on that. I can now start planning the balance bar set-up and deciding on which master cylinders to run. I also need to design the bracket which will hold the balance bar. 

     

    The balance bar set-up looks the same as this one. ------>  http://www.project20...ex.php/brakes-2

     

    I have dropped off the rotors we plan to use to have the centre holes machined out to fit the S15 hubs, and once they are done, we can also dummy up and make the calliper adaptor brackets. 

     

    While the calliper adaptor brackets are being made, I will also get the machinist to modify the strut tops so that I can maximise the amount camber, as we can't run adjustable arms under IPRA rules. I'm hoping to get 4 degrees of neg at the front, which should be more than enough.



    #92 Ungodlyfreak

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    Posted 25 July 2016 - 01:40 AM

    Wow, so much good stuff happening here. I love it.

    Israel
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    #93 datman55

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    Posted 25 July 2016 - 04:05 PM

    Thanks mate, making progress..... Slowly, slowly.

    #94 datman55

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    Posted 06 August 2016 - 07:52 AM

    Progress Report.......

     

    Making progress slowly, but hoping to get stuck into it some more this weekend.

     

    I have the WRX STi front rotors back from being machined, and have bolted them up to the hubs - perfect fit. One of the uprights has now been removed from the car and ready to take the whole lot back to have the adaptors made for the calipers.

     

    I have also removed both front struts and removed the adjustable camber plate so that it can also be modified to achieve some extra camber when we bolt it all back together. While I'm at it, I'll also get them to start in the  mounting bracket for the balance bar set-up....... plenty to do.



    #95 VFR15

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    Posted 06 August 2016 - 10:06 AM

    Have you come up with ideas to get more caster or just going to run eccentric bushes ?

    I am intrigued to how ST did it as he alluded on PF.



    #96 JimmieJoJo

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    Posted 06 August 2016 - 10:53 AM

    I doubt there is voodoo magic behind it. If it complied with the rules you will figure out how to get the adjustment you require.

    Edited by JimmieJoJo, 06 August 2016 - 10:54 AM.

    Jim

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    #97 datman55

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    Posted 06 August 2016 - 10:56 AM

    There are a few ways to get more castor within the rules. I did it with my sunny. There is such a thing as too much castor though, so I really want to see how much we have before we start modifying things. The three areas to look at though are....

     

    1. Offset bushes in the castor rods

    2. Different strut tops to position the top of the strut futher back

    3. Mounting position of the lower control arm in the crossmember.

     

    I had so much Castor in the Sunny, that we had to wind it back off a bit. If you weren't running at full pace, the front wheels would wobble like a shopping trolley on deceleration. It was so violent, it would rip the steering wheel out of your hands and you could see the whole front of the car wobbling from the drivers seat. The flag marshals would even point at it on the warm up lap!



    #98 datman55

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    Posted 06 August 2016 - 10:58 AM

    Some more shots of the brake set-up being dummied up.

     

    https://www.facebook...?type=3

     

    https://www.facebook...?type=3



    #99 datman55

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    Posted 10 August 2016 - 07:52 AM

    After a bit of a re-think around the rear brakes, I picked up some R33 GTST callipers & rotors yesterday from Dalspec (thanks mate). Pistons are only 2mm smaller than the EVO brembo's, and the rotor size is about the same too. For the ease of fitment, it was a no brainer in the end.

     

    R33 Rear Brakes.JPG



    #100 Dalspec

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    Posted 10 August 2016 - 07:56 AM

    Too easy Mark.  Was good to catch up for a chat.

     

     

    After a bit of a re-think around the rear brakes, I picked up some R33 GTST callipers & rotors yesterday from Dalspec (thanks mate). Pistons are only 2mm smaller than the EVO brembo's, and the rotor size is about the same too. For the ease of fitment, it was a no brainer in the end.

     

    attachicon.gifR33 Rear Brakes.JPG


    Name: Greg Location: Perth Car: S14




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