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Just read through your thread, great read and great to see someone getting into track days.   I started doing track days 20yrs ago, and have never looked back. After building an SR powered Datsun Sun

In 5-10years time, the competition would of changed and then you'll be looking at spending 100-150k on a car   #inflation #changes   Just enjoy your car and build it as you go...seat time is everythi

UPDATE! A minor one anyway. I had my first ever track day yesterday at RAC DTEC. Absolutely awesome. Had so much fun, learned a huge amount about myself, the car and driving it. I got about 2 hours o

So I've been getting way too ahead of myself and spending way too much time looking at the World Time Attack Challenge. Now I'm thinking I want to build a WTAC clubsprint class car. I was thinking about turning the silvia into a WTAC car, but I've realised that It's probably better to go from the ground up. So I think the new plan is to get this thing running smoothly and looking good and then just leave it. Then, in a few years, when I have the money, I'll find an s15, gut it and start planning out the build from the ground up. In the mean time, I'll be able to have a bit of fun with the current car on the track, enough to keep me satisfied.
I realise this is a massively ambitious plan, but I think I might be able to pull it off. I'm expecting a rough budget of $50-100k for a complete car, but in 5-10 years time, I think that's going to be achievable. Maybe I'll even go something completely different like a gtr or evo?
I take huge inspiration from the MCA hammerhead, hammerhead v2 and Under Suzuki's s15. And while I realise I'm not going to compete in pro class like those guys, I think I might have a chance in clubsprint class.
Thoughts?

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In 5-10years time, the competition would of changed and then you'll be looking at spending 100-150k on a car

 

#inflation #changes

 

Just enjoy your car and build it as you go...seat time is everything.

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Yeah, I guess that's definitely something to think about. But I can't see the clubsprint class changing that much in that time. This isn't pro class, there's still some pretty hefty restrictions that I doubt will change. I can see the ceiling for pro class getting higher and higher every year, but I doubt that's going to happen to the clubsprint class. And I guess even if it's not for WTAC, there's still a part of me that wants to do a ground up build. Rather than slowly upgrading things and ending up with something that either doesn't work well together or something that has each part upgraded multiple times. I suppose that's what I'm getting at here really. I'd rather set the end goal and get to design the car as a whole than, say, go 750cc injectors, then a gt2871, then e85, then 1000cc injectors for e85, then build a head, then a bottom end, then go a gt3071, etc, etc. Going from the ground up means I know what sort of cooling requirements I need, then I get to design my aero package, chassis and mounting around that (It does get a lot more involved than this, obviously). That way, I know everything on the car is going to work together at optimum efficiency. The clubsprint class rules just give me a limit to work within. Limits that I see as achievable, competitive and still absolutely crazy for a racecar. If there's another form of competetive racing at a lower level, then I'd love to do the same for that, maybe instead of WTAC.

And yeah, I do agree, seat time is everything. I'm realising that seat time is the thing I need most of all, more than any further changes to the car. I guess that's another thing that makes me feel uncertain about doing a ground up build. I probably need some significant experience of how to actually drive and an understanding of the physics behind handling before I go designing anything.

Edited by Ungodlyfreak
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  • 2 months later...

UPDATE! A minor one anyway.

I had my first ever track day yesterday at RAC DTEC. Absolutely awesome. Had so much fun, learned a huge amount about myself, the car and driving it. I got about 2 hours of driving in dry weather and then another hour after it started raining. Spun out 4 times on the dry track and 0 times in the wet. The silvia REALLY likes to oversteer. Usually either after turning in too fast or on power out of the apex. It did take me a while to get the hang of everything I had to pay attention to, but I think I started to get the hang of it about halfway through. This experience has really taught me a lot about my driving and what I want out of the car too.

 

It took me a while to get the hang of racing lines. I felt like I was starting to get the hang of the lines toward the end of the day, but I've still got a long way to go. I like the fact that I'm able to go through most corners without getting much oversteer. Also when it does go into oversteer, I'm able to get it back most of the time. I didn't bother recording any lap times this time, but next time I go, I'll start recording times so I can measure my learning and improvements. This will also give me a benchmarking ability for any future mods on the car.

 

I went to Tokyo Motorsport for some new project mu pads before the track day. Had a chat to Phil there who was really helpful. I put a set of HC800 brake pads on the front just before the track day (didn't change the rears since they had none in stock and they weren't as important). Holy sheet those are good. My brakes feel so much more sensitive; I no longer need to stomp on the brake pedal to slow down quickly. They also turned my white wheels black after about 6 laps. Now I'll be getting a set of the NS400 pads for the rear since they need replacing anyway. I was advised against the HC800 pads on the rear since the rear rotors aren't slotted which would make the HC pads squeal.

As I said, going to this track day has really changed what I want out of the car. I now feel completely comfortable with the relatively stock amount of power it makes and I don't feel like chasing anything more out of it for a while. I do want to get the car tuned now though. I had been putting it off for a while, but I noticed that every time I came off power between gears or in neutral the car would just rev down to 0 and stall unless i gave it a little throttle. This had been happening intermittently since putting the poncams in, but it never bothered me until now. I had been looking at getting a fixed back bucket seat and harness until now. However, after the track day, I feel like the stock seat suits me just fine.

So now, the to do list is:

  • Put the factory airbox back in. Fab up the intake pipe to fit the z32 afm on the airbox.
  • Add a cold air intake from the side holes in the front bar. Where the foglight would normally sit.
  • Put the factory BOV back in.
  • Fab up front bumper support and crash bar.
  • Put on the new front bar.
  • Modify the exhaust by putting a flex section in and mounting the cat higher than the chassis rails.
  • Check out the suspension heights and geometry (again).
  • Get a tune.
  • Set wicked lap times.

That's about the most I can do to the car without spending any/much money on it. There's a couple of other small things I'd like to do that all require money/parts. But those will happen when I can afford to pull car money out of the budget.

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As I said, going to this track day has really changed what I want out of the car. I now feel completely comfortable with the relatively stock amount of power it makes and I don't feel like chasing anything more out of it for a while.

 

Same thing happened to me....everyone wants power till they hit the track and then its like, maybe I should look at other things first.....sounds like you had a blast tho!

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Phil is a top bloke. Used to be a member on here back in the day. Known him for years. Knows his stuff, nice guy, loves his cars and racing. Can also drift incredibly well. Tokyo Motorsports are a good bunch of guys as well. Obviously mainly work on Evo's, but every now and again I drop my car there for a bit of a freshen up.

 

If you really want to get serious about improving lap times, there are a couple of things to look at straight up. Tyres, Seat, Harness and Seat Time. Tyres are the most overlooked thing for entry level motorsport enthusiasts.

Seat is fantastic for helping hold you in place so you get a really good feeling of what the car is doing. I never realised this until I got my fixed back and wow....the difference was very noticable.

Harness. I don't have one, but its basically to triple the feeling of the car you get. You are basically another piece of the car.

Seat time. Get out there as often as you can. More time out there, the better you get. Also, it is DAMN fun!!

 

Sounds like you had a blast and hope to see you out there at another event. It's been a while for me as well sadly :(

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  • 3 weeks later...
  • 2 months later...

UPDATE!

http://i.imgur.com/WdkSx4O.jpgSorry about sideways image. >.>

But yeah, finally went to PZP for a tune and I am stoked with the results. 290rwhp on a reasonably conservative tune. That's about 20 more than I expected on an engine that's done 230,000+kms.

To recap: engine mod list is:

  • Greedy Trust Profec EBC running 14psi/1bar/100kpa
  • Tomei Poncams
  • China Spec front mount cooler
  • 3" Exhaust
  • z32 AFM
  • Standard airbox (with the bottom drilled out for more airflow)
  • Greddy catch can
  • OEM BOV (to be upgraded to an aftermarket unit later)
  • 740cc Nismo injectors

I'll be rebuilding the engine when it hits 250,000km sometime next year. If I've got spare cash I might even go arp head studs, better head gasket and *maybe* even forged pistons/rods if I've got a spare $1000 or so (unlikely). I'll be curious to see what difference that makes to the curve, if any.

 

That's pretty much the end of major changes to this build for a while. Building a house and uni mean I'm not going to have any more money to do things for a while. I'm hoping to eventually dump $6k into an EFR turbo, 6boost mani and twin gates for a twin-scroll setup, but that's probably 2 to 5 years away. I think the focus now is on making new pipework on the exhaust and intake for better fitment, flow and aesthetics. After that I'll be focussing on aero and making a complete splitter/undertray/diffuser, a wing and fiddling with the front end for engine bay air flow. All of which I'll be making myself.

As for driving the thing, I've finally gotten around to doing the track daze group. So I'm hoping to make a track day every other month to learn how to drive the thing and hone my skills. The goal for now is to be able to set a consistent lap time. Once I can do that, I'll be able to know If my mods are actually making a difference or not.

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Just read through your thread, great read and great to see someone getting into track days.

 

I started doing track days 20yrs ago, and have never looked back. After building an SR powered Datsun Sunny race car which I sold in 2010, I have just recently picked up an S15 to turn into a track car/ race car.

 

I'll be following your progress, and hopefully we can exchange notes.

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Awesome man. Yeah, I have a dream of building an s15 for WTAC clubsprint class and competing in Sydney. This one is my daily, so I can't go too crazy on it. However it's a really good way for me to learn about what I'll be doing on the next one.

I'd love to talk to you about anything I've done and compare notes and setups. I'm always eager to learn.

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I have raced at Eastern Creek (Sydney Motorsport Park) a number of times ( I used to live in Sydney). I'm building mine to run in either Improved Production or Street Cars.

 

I'm heading up to Barbagallo on Thursday afternoon to do the No Limits track day. First time on track for me in 6 years, and the car is as I bought it. Should be interesting.

 

If you have time, come up and hi.

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  • 1 month later...

UPDATE TIME

knock knock, who's there? ...Big end #2
http://i.imgur.com/HIUihbj.jpg

 

That's the result of my RAC track day last weekend. Not sure if it's the 235 thousand ks on the car, oil starvation from the track corners and a stock sump or a possible over-rev coming into the corner before the main straight. Point is, it's dead.

 

http://i.imgur.com/lROOVPb.jpg

 

So towed it home and pulled it out
http://i.imgur.com/jUXtbL3.jpg

 

Pulled it apart and found the following in the sump:

http://i.imgur.com/06O1XrA.jpg

http://i.imgur.com/xFVaVnA.jpg

 

Then after taking the sump off, found the offending bearing.

http://i.imgur.com/N8exI43.jpg

 

 

Aside from the bearing though, the rest of the engine is in REALLY good condition. All parts of the coolant system show absolutely 0 signs of corrosion. All the other bearings looked mint (although big end #3 was looking slightly tired too). The rings all looked mint and the cylinder bore was as smooth as glass, still showing the original production hone marks.

http://i.imgur.com/L4LjsrM.jpg

 

The head all looks fine, no signs of damage there. Unfortunately though, it looks like the oil pump has picked up pieces of bearing and one of the main bearings now features a line scored around it on the crank. I think the crank is salvageable and I expect I can have all the bearings machined down and re-sized. However the #2 rod looks like cactus. After pulling it out, I couldn't get the big end cap back on. It looks like either the rod or cap or both are warped.
Haven't yet opened the oil pump to see if the gears are still ok, but there's a chance that's rooted too.

The plan now is a simple rebuild to OEM spec. I'm trying really hard to not get carried away and blow $3k on forged parts and a metal head gasket. Right now the shopping list is as follows:

  • OEM gasket kit, features every gasket and seal I need, $150
  • OEM piston rings, $150
  • One new OEM rod to replace #2, 90 (will balance the whole set)
  • ARP head studs since I can't find new OEM bolts for a reasonable price, $150
  • POSSIBLY a GTiR oil pump, $250 (Provides more flow and pressure than s15 oil pump, pretty simple conversion)
  • New, oversized bearings. Will get machine shop to source these according to what they do.

However, there is a chance I'll get carried away and also buy:

  • Forged pistons, STD size (86mm), 9.0:1 or 9.5:1 compression, probably CPs ~$750
  • Forged rods, ~$500
  • Apexi metal head gasket, $250
  • ARP main studs
  • Tomei extended, baffled sump, $250

But we'll see what the bank/fiance say.

 

I'm expecting $4-500 for machining the crank. which brings my estimate to a minimum of $1200.

Pretty sure head and block deck are fine, will polish and check these myself and valve seats will also be polished myself. Not sure if I'm going to try the hone myself. All assembly will be done by me, following this as base info for the rebuild: http://www.silviawa.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=66874&page=3.

I'll post up more info as things happen.

Edited by Ungodlyfreak
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How to you re-balance the new rod?

 

Would def recommend the extended sump.

 

I had Harris engines re-balance and polish my crank about 18 months ago and I think it came to under $300, tho it didnt look as damaged as yours.

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I would rebuild the bottom end for sure, bottom end is the "weak" point in SRs. But then, the head doesnt cost much to rebuild either so might as well do that :P

 

I got lucky when I was building mine - someone was selling a pre-built bottom end for cheap! :D

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Balancing rods is just a matter of making the whole set weigh the same. So use a set of balance scales, find the lightest rod and very carefully take material off the rest till they all weigh the same within a gram. Is about balancing the rotational mass of the entire engine. I think.

That's not the actual crank, that's the bearing still on the crank. Well put up another photo of the bank beating surface underneath.

I would love to build the bottom end but money is a concern here. Like I said, we'll see. To be honest, i wouldn't mind rebuilding to oem, then doing this again when i can afford forged parts or when i do the turbo.

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Dont waste your money with that ofher junk. Metal hg, and head studs is all you need. Also use the graded nissan bearings. Acl are a one size wizard sleeve clearance fits all (although nissan probably dont do oversize ones). If you are buying a new oil pump get a VE one. They are the best of the lot. Will require machining of your balancer though.

Edited by Munt.
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For OEM option my shopping list is:
OEM pistons $320
OEM piston rings $190
OEM rods $370
OEM head bolts $160 (ebay)
OEM gasket kit $200
OEM bearings $250
OEM oil pump $250
TOTAL $1740
For the forged option, the shopping list is:
Forged pistons $690 (Wiseco)
Forged rods $450 (Eagle)
Metal head gasket $140 (Tomei)
ARP head studs $200
ACL bearings $155
OEM gasket kit $200
GTiR oil pump $256
TOTAL $2091
all prices from FRsport.com

Second hand crank, $300, $100 to polish it and then a tune.
So total is $2.1 - 2.5k before tune. :(
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Shipping is hell expensive from FRsport too, don't forget that :P

 

For the price difference forged seems the way to go eh!?

 

You'ld still want the full gasket kit imo. I also replaced a few of the other sheetty lines too that were getting old.

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About $150 shipping. And yeah, going forged. Almost feels silly not to for the price difference. Getting the whole gasket kit, yeah.

So looking at $3k for full rebuild no corners cut including a tune. Will be nice to know i have a bulletproof engine that should last the next 5 years.

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